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My apologies for being kind of late with this month’s post. I was going to post it earlier, but didn’t think I should yet because Christian Forums was down, and this topic involves linking to a thread there.
Anyone who consistently debates with a particular group of people is likely to have certain arguments against the opposing position which they’re particularly fond of. It could be because these points are particularly striking, particularly difficult to refute, or for any other reason. This trend isn’t restricted to creationism vs. evolution—I’ve noticed the same thing in some of the debates that Jason Malloy of Gene Expression has with people who insist that there are no biological differences between humanity’s races. (For more details about that topic, see our post from October.) So this month’s topic is: What is your favorite line of evidence for evolution, and why?
In my case there are two answers, for two different reasons. The first answer is endogenous retroviruses, and in particular this essay about them. For those who don’t know, endogenous retroviruses are bits of DNA that are inserted into an organism’s genome as a result of a failed viral infection, which can in some cases be passed on to its offspring. No two ERVs are the same, even if they came from the same virus, since what specific bits of DNA are left behind and where in the genome they’re left is different for each infection. So if two animals share an ERV, there is no plausible explanation for this except that they both inherited it from a common ancestor.
As the aforementioned essay shows, the pattern of ERVs found in humans and other primates exactly mirrors the relationships between them which has been concluded from fossil and anatomical evidence. This essay also does an excellent job refuting basically all of the creationist arguments against this idea. My fondness of this essay in particular relates to a second reason why I especially like this line of evidence—this essay was written by R. Allan Glenn, who was a friend of mine in my debates with creationists in 2004 and 2005, but died in November of 2005 from complications of cystic fibrosis. A lot of members of the creation/evolution section at Christian Forums still regard Allan’s essays as so authoritative, they continue to cite what he’s written there even three years after his death. Many of them, myself included, consider his essay about endogenous retroviruses to be among his best.
A second piece of evidence that I particularly like relates to evolution’s ability to predict future discoveries; something which creationism has never been able to match. One of the best examples of this is the fact that several paleontologists were able to predict the existence of feathered dinosaurs more than a decade before they were discovered. (Perhaps "predict: isn’t the best word to use here, since the feathered dinosaurs obviously existed already, but the point is that the theory of evolution was able to determine their existence before there was any direct evidence for it.)
The paleontologist who’s most famous for having made this prediction is Gregory S. Paul, whose book Predatory Dinosaurs of the World contains several illustrations of the plumage he’d concluded these animals would have had. One such illustration can be found here. As can be seen from the date on this drawing, it was created in 1988, while the first feathered dinosaur fossil to be discovered, Sinosauropteryx prima, wasn’t found until 1996. Greg Paul also managed to correctly predict a few more specific details of their anatomy, such as the fringes or "proto-wings" on the Velociraptor’s arm, which have more recently been discovered in the fossils of dinosaurs such as Caudipteryx and Sinornithosaurus.
The prediction about feathered dinosaurs that I consider most striking, though, was not nearly so recent as the 1980s. In 1915, the American zoologist William Beebe reached a conclusion about the type of animal from which birds would have evolved, based on his studies of bird embryos. He predicted that their ancestors would have included a small, feathered dinosaur that flew using wings on its legs as well as its arms—a fairly good description of Microraptor gui, a feathered dinosaur whose remains were discovered 88 years later.
William Beebe also illustrated this hypothetical animal, which he referred to as “Tetrapteryx”. To anyone who does not know this illustration was created in 1915, it could easily be mistaken for a reconstruction created within the past five years of 2003’s discovery. I’ve included his illustration side-by-side with the original fossil in order to show their similarity; note the unique “leg-wings” in each case.
In addition to my general interest in feathered dinosaurs, the reason why I particularly like this piece of evidence is because it’s one of the only examples where it’s possible to show an illustration, based only on an understanding of evolutionary theory, of something whose existence was not actually discovered until decades later. What other specific pieces of evidence for evolution are the people here especially fond of, and why?
—Agahnim
My apologies for being kind of late with this month’s post. I was going to post it earlier, but didn’t think I should yet because Christian Forums was down, and this topic involves linking to a thread there.
Anyone who consistently debates with a particular group of people is likely to have certain arguments against the opposing position which they’re particularly fond of. It could be because these points are particularly striking, particularly difficult to refute, or for any other reason. This trend isn’t restricted to creationism vs. evolution—I’ve noticed the same thing in some of the debates that Jason Malloy of Gene Expression has with people who insist that there are no biological differences between humanity’s races. (For more details about that topic, see our post from October.) So this month’s topic is: What is your favorite line of evidence for evolution, and why?
In my case there are two answers, for two different reasons. The first answer is endogenous retroviruses, and in particular this essay about them. For those who don’t know, endogenous retroviruses are bits of DNA that are inserted into an organism’s genome as a result of a failed viral infection, which can in some cases be passed on to its offspring. No two ERVs are the same, even if they came from the same virus, since what specific bits of DNA are left behind and where in the genome they’re left is different for each infection. So if two animals share an ERV, there is no plausible explanation for this except that they both inherited it from a common ancestor.
As the aforementioned essay shows, the pattern of ERVs found in humans and other primates exactly mirrors the relationships between them which has been concluded from fossil and anatomical evidence. This essay also does an excellent job refuting basically all of the creationist arguments against this idea. My fondness of this essay in particular relates to a second reason why I especially like this line of evidence—this essay was written by R. Allan Glenn, who was a friend of mine in my debates with creationists in 2004 and 2005, but died in November of 2005 from complications of cystic fibrosis. A lot of members of the creation/evolution section at Christian Forums still regard Allan’s essays as so authoritative, they continue to cite what he’s written there even three years after his death. Many of them, myself included, consider his essay about endogenous retroviruses to be among his best.
A second piece of evidence that I particularly like relates to evolution’s ability to predict future discoveries; something which creationism has never been able to match. One of the best examples of this is the fact that several paleontologists were able to predict the existence of feathered dinosaurs more than a decade before they were discovered. (Perhaps "predict: isn’t the best word to use here, since the feathered dinosaurs obviously existed already, but the point is that the theory of evolution was able to determine their existence before there was any direct evidence for it.)
The paleontologist who’s most famous for having made this prediction is Gregory S. Paul, whose book Predatory Dinosaurs of the World contains several illustrations of the plumage he’d concluded these animals would have had. One such illustration can be found here. As can be seen from the date on this drawing, it was created in 1988, while the first feathered dinosaur fossil to be discovered, Sinosauropteryx prima, wasn’t found until 1996. Greg Paul also managed to correctly predict a few more specific details of their anatomy, such as the fringes or "proto-wings" on the Velociraptor’s arm, which have more recently been discovered in the fossils of dinosaurs such as Caudipteryx and Sinornithosaurus.
The prediction about feathered dinosaurs that I consider most striking, though, was not nearly so recent as the 1980s. In 1915, the American zoologist William Beebe reached a conclusion about the type of animal from which birds would have evolved, based on his studies of bird embryos. He predicted that their ancestors would have included a small, feathered dinosaur that flew using wings on its legs as well as its arms—a fairly good description of Microraptor gui, a feathered dinosaur whose remains were discovered 88 years later.
William Beebe also illustrated this hypothetical animal, which he referred to as “Tetrapteryx”. To anyone who does not know this illustration was created in 1915, it could easily be mistaken for a reconstruction created within the past five years of 2003’s discovery. I’ve included his illustration side-by-side with the original fossil in order to show their similarity; note the unique “leg-wings” in each case.
In addition to my general interest in feathered dinosaurs, the reason why I particularly like this piece of evidence is because it’s one of the only examples where it’s possible to show an illustration, based only on an understanding of evolutionary theory, of something whose existence was not actually discovered until decades later. What other specific pieces of evidence for evolution are the people here especially fond of, and why?
—Agahnim
New submission guideline announcement
Please note the addition of a new addition to our submission guidelines: from now on we are only accepting submissions that were created by the person submitting them, or that were uploaded with the creator's permission. A few examples of things not allowed under this new guideline:
Renders of 3D models created by someone else. (However, original scenes that use someone else's models are acceptable, as long as the scene was created by the submitter.)
Video game screenshots, unless the screenshot is showing an original scene that was created in the game, such as a reconstruction of a paleo scene or a model created in Minecraft.
Images scanned
Our Book on Evolution: Signed Copies Available
Just over a year ago, your group admins—myself and Agahnim (https://www.deviantart.com/agahnim)—reached a major milestone in our long-term goal of evolution education and outreach, which served the basis for starting this group over 11 years ago. We published our first book! Published by Inkwater Press and titled God’s Word or Human Reason?, the book has been available on Amazon since January of last year.
I am now offering direct purchases of signed, inscribed hardcovers that are personalized with a drawing of a bird or dinosaur of your choice. They are $40 (U.S. and Canada) or $50 (everywhere else), shipping included. Thanks to my excellent web develope
Paleoart folder full: New folder, Paleoart II
After 11 years of activity, our Paleoart folder is now full to capacity. I have closed this folder to submission attempts and have created a new folder for paleoart, Paleoart II, so please direct all artworks of prehistoric life to this folder and this folder only. Any paleoart submissions to the General Art folder will be declined without comment.
I have added a notice of this change to the rules on the main page, as well as to the description of the full folder (now renamed Paleoart I) to minimize possible misunderstandings.
Thank you to all of our members for continuing to make this group the biggest evolution-themed community on Deviant
Recently expired submissions: please resubmit!
Hi loyal Domain of Darwin followers,
Over the past couple of weeks I have been shamefully neglectful of the group, and stupidly allowed a handful of submissions to expire. Unfortunately, it seems as though most of their notifications have disappeared from my inbox, so I cannot solicit them individually. Therefore, if you submitted something to the group in the past several weeks and it did not get accepted, please resubmit at your earliest convenience! Very sorry once again.
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Comments13
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I like constraints and happenstance showing the contingency present in evolution.
Constraints are... well... you couldn't do good, accurate palaeontography without them. Knowing that proximal limb bones in tetrapods never move past normal (direction perpendicular with the ground) or their nostrils are always terminal to the bony external nares. That dinosaurs (and archosaurs for that matter) had only 3 clawed fingers, could not actively pronate their hands at the elbow. Etc...
All of this shows that evolution works with what it has and major phylogenetic relations in one fell swoop.
One of my favourites for happenstance is the existence of a pseudogene derived in foregone times of the gene for an enzyme that produced vitamin C in primates, finches, and guinea pigs among others. That's why a cat (given enough mice) could survive in a ship after its human crew succumbed to scurvy
Constraints are... well... you couldn't do good, accurate palaeontography without them. Knowing that proximal limb bones in tetrapods never move past normal (direction perpendicular with the ground) or their nostrils are always terminal to the bony external nares. That dinosaurs (and archosaurs for that matter) had only 3 clawed fingers, could not actively pronate their hands at the elbow. Etc...
All of this shows that evolution works with what it has and major phylogenetic relations in one fell swoop.
One of my favourites for happenstance is the existence of a pseudogene derived in foregone times of the gene for an enzyme that produced vitamin C in primates, finches, and guinea pigs among others. That's why a cat (given enough mice) could survive in a ship after its human crew succumbed to scurvy